Sudan And Civil War

Sudan And Civil War

(The Arab Government Of Sudan Envies The Blacks Of Darfur Because They Have Oil — Genocide, Rape, Racism, Hatred, Murder, Slavery All Because Of Oil)

By Chance, Chancellorfiles

Chance: The news media around the world has been reporting on the civil war in Sudan.
This civil war is between the Arabs and the blacks, the majority of the Arabs live in the northern part of Sudan and the majority of the blacks live in the southern and western part of Sudan.

This civil war has been going on for years, and there has been many Arabs and blacks killed in the civil war, but the majority of the people killed in this civil war are blacks.

Currently Arab slave masters have many blacks in slavery yes, slavery. Currently the Arabs have more military power and weapons than the blacks.

What is this civil war all about and what started it? The major reasons for this civil war are clearly racism, Greed, oil, and not wanting to share political power with blacks.

In the Darfur region of Sudan oil has been found and the overwhelming "majority" of the people living in Dafur are black-so the Arabs have formed a powerful militia called the janjaweed.

The janjaweed militia is made up of Arabs who are Muslims and speak Arabic they are supported by the Arab government of Sudan. Also some of the Janjaweed are black men too, so the Janjaweed has both Arabs and blacks as members. The Arab government say they don’t support the janjaweed.

But many of the black Sudanese people say that the Arab government of Sudan does support the janjaweed by giving them weapons.

Now let’s take a look at Darfur, Greater Darfur is a territory composed of three states North, South, and West Darfur are located in the northwestern region of Sudan, bordering Chad to the west, Libya to the northwest, and Central African Republic to the southwest.

Darfur_sudan_3

Oil Discovered In Darfur

There is a lot of oil in Darfur, and yes, whether they admit it or not the Sudanese government wants that oil. The civil war between Arab and black Sudanese had decreased dramatically, the fighting started back up again when the Arab government found out that oil had been discoverd in Darfur. The Sudanese Arab government is secretively supporting the janjaweed, the Sudanese government has also in the past attacked the blacks in Darfur with bomber jets.

The “Sudanese government" is not about to let some militia like the janjaweed get all that oil for themselves, and with that oil money the janjaweed would have enough money To over–throw the Arab government.

And the Arab government is not going to let that happen, also the Arabs criticize the whites for slavery.

But the Arabs of Sudan make slaves out of blacks. The Arab government wants the blacks out of darfur, so they can-have all the oil and by having oil they will have a major influence in the world because oil brings power.

Chance: The city of "Khartoum" is the governmental headquarters and capital of Sudan, and the Arabs control the government. The Arab government also by letting the janjaweed militia attack the blacks, the government can say — it is the janjaweed militia doing all the attacking and not us the government of Sudan.
There are black women being raped, homes, and villages destroyed, children murdered, and genocide all of this violence over oil.

Also, the Sudanese government has sentenced some of the janjaweed militia men to death and some received sentences to have their hands and feet cut off.

Now this is interesting, secretively certain political leaders in the Sudanese government are supporting the janjaweed, and at the same time to get the international news off their back the Sudanese government sacrifices some of the members of janjaweed. And internationally publicize that some of the janjaweed militia men have been arrested and "convicted" and will face severe punishments.

Africa And The Middle East

Also the blacks were living in Sudan before the Arabs came there the Sudan use to be called Nubia. So if anyone is entitled to the oil based upon who was living there first it is the blacks.

You don’t see blacks from Africa invading Saudi Arabia, Iraq, and Kuwait for their oil? And these are Arab countries – also, many people forget that the Middle East is a part of Africa.

How come when Arabs enslave many blacks’ the incident (slavery and genocide) don’t get that much attention from the news media?

The answer is simple as long as it is not white people doing the enslaving the majority of other non white ethnic and racial groups generally don’t care about what happens in other third world countries.

Why? Because the other ethnic groups on this earth don’t have as much wealth and success when compared to the white race.

The white race is currently the wealthiest of all ethnic groups and this wealth is what whites earned by hard work and intelligence.

The Arabs major source of income is oil and most Arab people live in poverty, because their governments don’t allow them to have a lot of democracy.

Also all of the non–white ethnic groups don’t expect a lot of kindness from the leaders of their own ethnic groups; they expect more kindness from the white race.

If it was the white race doing the enslaving then the world would be angry and criticizing the white race. Also non–white ethnic groups feel and know that the white race sometimes "compensate" for their past injustices.

And the non white ethnic groups know that non–white leaders seldom compensate for their injustices.

Arabs And Slavery (arabs enslaved blacks before whites came to Africa)

Also it was the Arab Muslims who were involved with slavery before the white Europeans.

Yes, before the white Europeans got involved with the "black slave trade” Arab Muslims were already involved with enslaving black Africans.

When we look into the past the Muslims in the Turkish Ottoman Empire enslaved white eastern Europeans; they took these white eastern Europeans to the country of turkey.

These white slaves mixed with the brown skinned Turkish people and this is why many Turkish people are so white skinned.

So Muslim countries cannot complain about the sinful history of white people enslaving black people in the past because Muslims practiced slavery also.

Arab Muslims enslaved blacks and Turkish Muslims enslaved white eastern Europeans. Arab Muslims enslaved black Africans long before "white Europeans" got involved with slavery.

Muslim countries accuse Americans of being money hungry look at the Arab countries that have oil-their leaders use that oil money to live a life of luxury just like Americans.

The Arab Muslim countries of North Africa and the "middle east" accuse the white Europeans and white American politicians

Of wanting to take all of the oil that Arab countries have. But look at the Arab government of Sudan they want to take the oil that the blacks in southern Sudan have.

They don’t want share the oil with the black Sudanese the Sudanese Arab government wants the oil for themselves.

Why? Because of greed, yes, the same greed that the Arab Muslim countries accuse America of having.

What hypocrisy on the part of the Arab Muslim countries like Sudan "Oh yes” I must not forget to mention that the Arab government of Sudan doesn’t intend to share the oil and money they will make with the Arab people of Sudan either.

The Arabs of Sudan will still continue living in poverty thanks to their dictator president and corrupt politicians of Sudan just like the blacks — many Arabs are poor when I say poor I’m talking about crushing poverty.

The most superior thing for the Arab government of Sudan to do is ask the black Sudanese to share the oil, and help them dig oil wells instead of trying to take it from them.

The Arab government should work hand and hand with the black Sudanese of the Darfur region, by doing this they both would benefit and make life a little easier financially for the Arab and black people of Sudan.

By Chance Kelsey (Chancellor)

Written during the 21st century by Chance


  1. Yo Chance good post dog. But the question is what do we do about it. I believe we should put together a plan, have our church and political leaders to put extreme pressure civil rights style on the Sudaneese goverment. Im talking about jamming the Sudaneese embasies phones, blocking thier driveways, urban protest, ect. Anyway you are right if it was a European country enslaving black folk, Farrakhan a#s would be all over that. Mark Bey

  2. Interesting article Chance, but there are a few things that should be said.

    1) While this is a civil struggle, it shouldn’t be confused with the Sudanese Civil War. That was a north vs. south conflict with the Sudanese government engaged against the Sudanese People’s Liberation Army (SPLA). Yes, that conflict was kicked off by the discovery of oil in what was then a largely separate managed southern region of Sudan.

    Just as a peace agreement between those two sides was about to be signed, the people in Darfur (not southern Sudan) wanted a similar agreement and started their own rebellion modeled after the one in the south. This was the Sudanese Liberation Army (SLA) and while the uprising can be characterized as related and certainly has similar undertones, it is not part of “the” civil war.

    2) The conflict is not as simple as black vs. arab in the way that we understand it here. Many of the Janjaweed are just as “black” (even blacker in actuality) as you or me. The Janjaweed is employed in Darfur because most of the Sudanese Army is from Darfur and it was clear that they were not going to fight against their friends and families. Even still, there are plenty of non-Arabicized blacks working in their ranks. This reality is one of the reasons why the U.N. had a hard time pinning the Sudanese government with charges of Genocide.

    Also, the government may have the “blacks” outgunned, but you see who was at the table signing a peace deal.

    3) Lastly, while the charges of Genocide were averted, there were charges of war crimes and crimes against humanity – which are just as bad. What goes underreported is that both sides of the Darfur conflict have been cited with these violations.

  3. To Mark

    You are right we should as black people protest and stand in front of the Sudanese embassy, and let our voices be heard. We should demand that America and the U.N. put more sanctions on the Sudan than they already have put on them. We have to stop being passive as a racial group, and also too many blacks come across as though they hate blacks — and this also keeps us from lending a helping hand to blacks in America and all over the planet. We must stop acting like this.

    By Chance

  4. To Rashid

    Good points Rashid, and I agree with you a whole lot and it is sad that it has come to this over in Sudan thousands of people murdered. You bring up some good points though and I read them through this violence that is happening in Sudan is now spreading into the country of CHAD, and CHAD is endanger of being conquered by Arabs from Sudan. Will these dang gone violent conflicts that torment AFRICA ever cease?

    Good to see you come by Rashid.

    take care, Rashid

    By Chance

  5. Chance,

    2 things on Chad:

    1) Many of the Janjaweed come from Chad.

    2) The Chadian government has been instigating violence in Sudan for years. If the conflict spills over into their country, it will just be the chickens coming home to roost.

  6. To Rashid

    Then like Malcolm X said the chickens coming home to roost meaning the LAW OF KARMA you reap what you sow CHAD. So it is time to pay the pied piper. If it was not for the FRENCH government having some troops stationed in CHAD, Chad would have possibly conquered by those ARAB forces that attacked it (Chad). We will see how this is going to turn out in Chad because — Chad already has an unstable government.

    I hear your knowledge RASHID

    By Chance

  7. Yo Rashid are you trying to justify or marginilize muslim violence against non muslims. I read your comments and you mention that fact that the rebel groups commit attrocities as well as the Janjaweed, you also state that chad has been poking around in sudan causing trouble. This I dont find hard to believe as the borders between most countries in the world have ethnic and religious groups belonging to both countries. Meaning on the kenyan, ethiopian border you have ethinic groups belonging to both countries speaking several languages belonging to both country, on the chadian, sudaneese have the same thing. Rashid Im not trying to attact you at all but you seem very informed about what’s going on in the region of africa, but you make no mention of arabs and muslims enslaving africans and christians. This is well documented and has been happening long before europeans enslaved africans. Im not attacting you but I would like to know what’s that all about. Also Im getting the impression from your post that you are trying to context muslim crimes in africa against non muslims. Mark bey

  8. Hey Mark,

    I appreciate your questions and I take no offense.

    My intent is not to marginalize anything, but to add depth to a discussion that is normally very shallow. We normally hear Darfur as Arab Muslims oppressing Black Christians but that’s more explanatory of the civil war. And it’s not that accurate of the civil war because most of the people in southern Sudan are not Christian. The people in Darfur are also mainly Muslim, which breaks a lot of the conventional knowledge.

    My bottom line is that this conflict has more to do with oil and economics than race or religion. The southern part of Sudan was pretty independent until oil showed up, that’s when Sharia law all of a sudden became such an important issue for the government.

    Yes, I know that Arabs have been trading African slaves forever. I don’t find slavery there now particularly surprising as there are slaves being traded all over the “civilized” world as well. That doesn’t make it right for sure, but in the end, slavery is a supply and demand issue, just like drugs. As long as there is a market, it will persist until the cost exceeds the benefit.

    Sorry to sound so calculating on it, but that is the reality as I see it and it extends to every slave-trading market on Earth. Until sombody wants to raise the cost – (by lowering the supply or the demand) an action which is very costly in and of itself – there isn’t much that can be done except pray for God to be with those in such unfortunate circumstances.

    I gotta get to class.

  9. Yo Chance I checked out your news website. I really like, I just wanted to know out of curiosity, what was your motivation for putting it together. Mark Bey

  10. Rashid said: Yes, I know that Arabs have been trading African slaves forever.

    Mark said: Look this is one of the beefs that black folk have with white people, this is a serious point of contention for us. In fact the nation of Islam use to go on and on about. They even claimed Christianity was a devils religion and was hypocrital. But where is the Nation of Islam’s outrage when it comes to Islamic slavery against africans. Where’s is the outrage from american blacks. How can one take the Nation seriously when while at the same time their calling the white man the devil, Black and Arab muslims are enslaving africans. The Nation knew and knows of this today. But they let african women and kids be abused and rapped by muslims without saying anything. Many of the things the NOI was yapping about muslims are still doing to black people and yet the effectively say and do nothing. But from what I can see this is normal behavior from blacks in american and africa. If a white policeman (or black one for that matter)kills a black kid we march and demonstrate in the streets. But blacks can kill each other wholesale and thier are no marches. There is a part of me that thinks the civil right struggle was not really about all of us. Im starting to think it was for a few of the elite. Why is it that brothers cant openly admit our major disrespect to our women. Dont get me wrong Rashid I hold most black folk ( including our women) responsible for the mess that were in. But it is more than obvious to me that black women have had to carry more than their fair share over the last 30 or 40 so years. But we cant even honestly critisize certain behaviours of some black men. Or folks will clam your unfairly sterotyping brothas. I do not see any real hope unless we can discuss key things that are holding us back, such as

    1) Our bad attitude about education
    2) Our out of control sexual behaviour
    3) Too many black men not being a part of thier families
    4) The murder and crime rates in our communities.
    I could list other things but I think you get the point. I believe that black folk have a serious case of denial going on as it relates to the problems that we have. Anyway I do not see any hope until black folk began to be totally honest and forthright about what’s going on in our communities. As of now I dont see this happening, I will continue to pray for us but something is going to really have to change or I see things getting worse. Are you familiar with the aids stats for black folk in this country? Mark Bey

  11. I can see here that someone can see that slavery existed elsewhere long before it existed here, facts are that Islam has ensalved more black people than any other country in the world, and it continues today, but no one will speak out about it, if the word slavery is mentioned the first thing that pops into a person mind is the south…and the brainwashing continues.

  12. To DIX

    Thanks for coming by DIX, and yes slavery existed in AFRICA long before ns came to white european AFRICA. Blacks enslaved blacks in AFRICA long ago before whites even came to AFRICA, and ARABS enslaved blacks in AFRICA long before whites even came to AFRICA.

    Also whites enslaverd other whites in europe long ago. Every culture enslaved somebody long ago slavery is nothing new.

    Thanks for coming buy DIX and good to hear from you again.

    Take care, DIXIE DRIFTER

    BY CHANCE

  13. Sorry it took me so long to get back, I’ve been kind of busy.

    Mark,

    The slavery thing is complex, and any critical assessment of slavery in Islam and slavery in the West would show that there are marked differences – unlike what is implied by the Dixie Drifter. Obviously rape and brutalization can’t be tolerated, but such practice is inconsistent with the teachings of Islam which are clearly aimed at the elimination of slavery. I think a distinction has to be drawn between Arab slavery and Muslim slavery though there is an obvious history of disrespect toward blacks in many Arab circles. Still you would find that disrespect part of the Arab culture and not the Islamic mandate.

    I don’t claim to know what Farrakhan knows, but I know that I would trust his judgement over most of these other so-called black leaders today.

    All of the things that you say black people can’t complain about, Farrakhan complains about openly and candidly. He also offers solutions. A lot of people don’t like those solutions, but of course that doesnt make them bad or wrong.

    In the end, I feel like the best thing that you can do is lead by example.

  14. Yo Rashid hope life has been treating you good. Thought you were afraid to debate. Just joking.

    rashid said:I think a distinction has to be drawn between Arab slavery and Muslim slavery though there is an obvious history of disrespect toward blacks in many Arab circles

    I have found that most racial groups as well as religions are remember what was done to them but somehow they forget the shit they do to others. For example whites in this country have never been honest about the crimes against black folk and Native americans, christians convientely forget about all of the muslims the crusaders massacred during the crusades, muslims will never admit all of the christians an jews they have murdered, or black africans they have enslaved. Just as black men have never admitted to the mistreatment of black women, just as black women will never admit that they sometimes destroy their sons by piling on baggage from the father. Now in response to your comment about thier being a difference between arab and muslim slavery, arent most arabs muslims? Also you can say what you want Rashid some of the most backwards behavior on the plantet is carried out by muslims, black, white and arab. As for Farrakan, Ill admit he has the mental capacities to go toe to toe with any black leader or white leader, politican, ect. However it is my belief that all of that foolishness the Nation has put out thier such as the Yacub stuff or the Non sense about the mother ship has made him into somewhat of a quack in my oppinion, although I fully respect the Nation for cleaning up brothers during the 60’s and 70’s. All I want is to have dialog with brothers and sisters who are willing to admit the stupid and wrong things we have been doing only then can we really make progress in my oppinion. By the way I have never heard Farrakan speak out against arab or muslim crimes against africans, under those circumstances I cannot take those guys seriously. Mark

  15. TO the FEllows (MARK and RASHID)

    Y’all off the chain both y’all intellectually putin it DOWN at the intelletual madhouse. SHOW THAT KNOWLEDGE BROTHAS y’all got big CHANCE (me) SCARED to come up in here and drop a comment. Y’all will intellectually chase me off the commenting block. Keep the knowledge flowing my people just let it flow.

    WORD UP MY PEOPLE!

    BY CHANCE

  16. The most backwards behavior on the planet takes place in Africa, and it happens regardless of religion. People just love blaming religion for the worlds problems, but the fact of the matter is that religion is a system. Ask people who design systems for a living what the biggest problem with any system is and they all tell you the same thing: people.

    I make a distinction between Arab and Muslim slavery because slavery predated Islam in the Arab world just like genital mutilation predated it in the African world. Islam put massive reforms in place on the two (outright banning the latter), but yet they still have persisted in their pre-Islamic forms. The same way that slavery accelerated under Christianity as well. As far as the Crusades go, there was enough killing to go around as the Christians killed plenty of Muslims and Pagans and Jews during that period and Constantine whipped a bit of ass behind the cross himself. Let’s not act like the Muslims were the first or only expansionists of the time.

    What separates the West from the Arab and African states now is that wealth in the west was generated by free enterprise of the population as a whole. In this other area, it was primarily generated by capitalizing on state assets (read: oil). The West industrialized and was able to make slavery economically unfeasable. These other states are so externally dependent and their means of income so concentrated that those in charge will stop at nothing to preserve their means of prosperity with no regard for their general populations. And of course this whole structure of greed is propped up by you-know-who buying you-know-what.

    As for Yacub and the “Mother Plane,” they are no more ridiculous than a virgin birth, the universe being made in six days, a person putting every species on Earth in a boat in preparation for a flood that covers the entire planet, or “let there be light” being shouted before the sun moon and stars were created. Yet Christianity has somehow managed to do a lot of good in practice, and so has Farrakhan. The NOI cleans up brothers and sisters TODAY. And those same brothers and sisters will be among the first to admit the problems in the black comunity.

    If you are looking for a perfect leader with a perfect ideology, I’m sorry to say that you’ll be waiting for a long time.

  17. Good points of view Rashid you broke it down nice and swell very articulate.

    BY CHANCE

  18. Yo Rashid good rebuttal

    Rashid said:The most backwards behavior on the planet takes place in Africa, and it happens

    This I agree with. However this does not excuse some of the repressive behaviors of Islam or any other religion. As for the Virgin marry vs the mothersips and Yacub I take either one more seriously than the other. I am anti-religion 100% spirituality. I think all religion everywhere though maybe based on actual past events are nothing more than mans attempt to bring substance to the unkown or a way of explaining the universe, earth and all life on it. Way back in the day when people were being hunted by lion, tigers and bears, and right truly made right people needed temper themselves. Also back in the day if a women had 8 kids it wasnt unormal to lose 5 of them, my theory is this is some catastrophic sh#t to with. So religion helped people make sense of the unkown including tragidies. But know we have science, of all types to explain the world. So stick to the science for my truth and use religion and sprituality for my charitable side. To be honest thier connected. And no Im not looking for a perfect leader, but I do expect Jesse ” the Clown ” Jackson not to have babies not to make babies outside of wedlock. I do not expect or respect when the nation is preaching that Yacub and Mothership stuff when everyone with any bit sense knows that the nation made that stuff up recently, thier know way that the world went down the way they say it did, they are telling lies I can never respect it. Sorry if your in the Nation. Mark

  19. Well I can tell you for sure that most people in the Nation who I know that talk about motherships and Yacub believe it just as much as Christians believe in a resurrection. So I think that you’re getting ahead of yourself by calling them liars.

    Again, there is nothing that will keep people from acting crazy, just look at the secular regimes of the past 60 years. They have killed more than all religious extremists on Earth combined. So diatribes against religion don’t do much for me, I’ve seen self-righteous so-called “reasonable” people talk and act just as stupid and the most fervent Bible-thumper or “Islamist.”

    The NOI has gone on the record about Sudan, but, like I said, it’s very complicated. See a little for yourself:
    http://www.finalcall.com/perspectives/sudan_bec05-27-2001.htm

  20. Well I can tell you for sure that most people in the Nation who I know that talk about motherships and Yacub believe it just as much as Christians believe in a resurrection. So I think that you’re getting ahead of yourself by calling them liars.

    Yo Rashid thanks for the link I will check it out when I get home because I getting ready to get off. But just because I point out what I believe to be contradictions does not make it a diatribe. Also just because the brothers in the nation fervently believe in yacub and motherships dont mean it makes sense. As for the resurection I dont believe in that either. I am anti religion, but 100% spiritual thiers a big difference. Now the difference between the resurection and Yacub and motherships is that before the Nation of islam thier is no such record of those things, but the resurection goes back 2000 years. In fact orthodox Islam does not acknowledge Yacub and motherships that is why I say it is made up. Incidentally this is the reason I am anti religion, becuase with religion(all types) they get to say any fantastic thing they want without any evidence. I am a man of science, I need proof or a compelling argument as to why something is true. But you are right its about how people work the system(religion) and not the system itself. Mark

  21. Mark,

    Actually, there is Biblical basic for the Mother Plane (Ezekiel’s wheel) and Yacub (Jacob and the lambs).

    Pretty much all of the NOI teaching come from the Bible and the Qur’an. The very core of the NOI teachings are that there is an empirical truth behind the Bible and the Qur’an. Therefore, instead of a cloud in the sky with people standing on it, the belief is that there is an actual ship with people controlling it.

    Any NOI Muslim will tell you that Islam is about science and mathmatics. If you have conclusive proof that selective breeding over hundreds of years can’t greate a recessed group of people then the Muslims would love to know. If you do the research though, you’ll see that it’s might not be as easy to dismiss scientifically as you think. I know, I’ve tried.

  22. Yo Rashid why cant you just admit that the nation has no historical documents that talk about Yacub or the mother ship. As I am non religious but all spiritual I could believe Yacub and the mother ship just as easily as the virgin mary. But to keep it real I find both the bible and the Koran and every other religous text to be not logically consitant. Anyway the bottom is this during the 60’s the nation of islam called the whiteman and christianity the devil and the devils religion, a big reason for this was slavery, but the bottom line is this muslims where enslaving black people long before christians did, so to call a religion evil for something that your religion did is pure hypocrisy. You can try to say slavery under the islam wasnt and isnt that bad all you want to, the bottom line is that, muslims would die to keep theire women and children from bieng enslaved so thier could never be any justification of them enslaving others. Also the only group of muslims who mention anything about yacub and mother ships is the black muslims in america.Since world islam predates, the NOI I have to assume that the NOI made up the Yacub and Mothership stuff. In Oxon Hill Maryland we call this lying. Mark

  23. You call yourself a man of science but you clearly have not studied the things that you are criticizing to much depth. Until you do, this conversation is pointless.

    If you are truly searching for knowledge you’ll know the following before you call the NOI liars and before you get so self-righteous on slavery:

    1) What is slavery? What are the tenets of Islamic slavery and the actual practice. Why did slavery in Arabia expand so far and wide to remote regions after the rise of Islam?

    Here’s a hint: look for why slave populations in the Arab world grew so little compared to the Western world.

    2) What are the theological differences between the NOI and the Eastern Muslims. I don’t mean “white man is the devil” differences, I mean the core interpretations of scripture and people.

    Here’s a hint: look at the Prophet Muhammad’s [P] ideology on three generations of Muslims, do the math and then go from there.

    3) What is the evidence for slavery in Sudan, who provides it, and how credible are they? Ask youself the same question about the people who say that there is no slavery there. Is there a profit motive on either side? That last question doesn’t mean much by itself, but just do a little independent research instead of believing everything that you hear on the news.

    That should keep you occupied for a while. Here are some links to get you started:

    Race, Slavery, and the Middle East
    http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/med/lewis1.html

    Thinking Critically about Sudan
    http://www.finalcall.com/perspectives/sudan_bec05-27-2001.htm

    Seventh Fam – Tons of stuff to read here, but you have to pretty much read it all to have much credibility in your criticism
    http://seventhfam.com/

    I’m not trying to convince you of anything, but I’d like for your arguments and criticisms to be based on in-depth research. Right now they seem to be based on a superficial understanding of the issues at large. To think that the NOI somehow knows nothing about Arab slavery or denies it shows a deep ignorance of their mindset. I’m not an official member, but I grew up in a house of Farrakhan, and have spent a lot of time studying the NOI philosophy over the past few years. You’ll find that as you get past all of the incindeary rhetoric, it is more rational and scientific than you could ever imagine. Certainly moreso than any other religion that I’m aware of – and I know of a few.

  24. To Mark & Rashid
    This is great intellectual fire manifesting between you two even I am impressed y’all got me scared to get in the line of fire. All I can say is WOW! PEOPLE WOW!

    BY CHANCE

  25. To Mark & Rashid

    The nation of Islam is not really all bad it has good and bad characters associated with it. I agree with some of the things that Minister Louis Farrakhan says he is often criticized because of the way and attitude he says things in.Now I may not agrre with everything Loius Farrakhan says, but some of it I do.

    Personally I do believe in UFO and life on other planets and I believe that alieans have been in contact with certain governments, religious leaders, and other humans on this blue planet earth.

    I believe that some aliens are good and others are bad (evil) ask your self how can we earthlings be the only creattion in the universe. GOD made but only put earthlings in it come on now. Are we that special? this universe is populated with other life forms.

    I believe in life on other planets and space ships not because of a particular person telling me but because how can we be the only ones. Then why did GOD create the other planets and galaxies if he did not intend for them to be inhabited?

    By Chance

  26. Yo Rashid I went to some of the links and did some reading. I am familiar with some of the info in those links. However I didnt need to read those links to know that Islam has a history of tolerance, scientific achievement and reform as well as a proud world history. I would never deny that. But Islam also has a history of enslaving black people people from africa( and other parts of the world). The impression I get from your post and the first link you provided in your last post is that you are trying to contex Islams history of enslaving folks(black africans included) as not bieng on the extreme side of historical slavery. It seems to me that the one of the fundemental points you are trying to make is that muslim slavery was not anywhere as horrific as European slavery. This may be true. However I could care less if Islamic slavery was 100 times more human than christian slavery, the bottom line is this muslims who enslaved africans long before, the european slave trade. Would those same muslims have tolerated or wanted anyone to enslave them and thier families even if that slavery was not as brutal as european slavery?I dont think so. I also do not care if the bible, tora or koran all sanction enslaving people (which is pointed out in the first link), my moral code tells me that enslaving other human biengs to work without compensation is wrong, wrong, wrong and under the laws of common sense, decency and doing unto others as you would have them do unto they cannot be justified now or 2000 years ago. Period. What you are doing in your post is the problem I have with most religion and that is they freely talk about attrocities committed against them (their religion) but the somehow forget the attrocities and crimes they committ against other religions. I have spent time around the some of the folks from the Nation, and I heard some folks say that the Yacub and Motherplane teachings are literal, then I had one brother who was given me a ride home tell me that they were just parables. I also asked several muslims I work with if they had heard of the Yacub and Mother plain stuff they all said know, and that those beliefs were not a part of islam. As for me accusing the Nation of lying, perhaps my words were not chosen tactfully but from my understanding those teachings are not a part of the historical teachings of Islam. Although I do know many interesting things can be done with selective breeding for instance ( all dog breads are breed from the same species but with thousands of years of breeding you can get such divergent breeds from poodles to St Bernards). So It may be possible, but my mind is wide open so I also believe a lot of other things are possible. It is possible that motherplanes exist but I have not seen one, I know on oo ne who has seen one so under those circumstances I cannot take the Nations claims of Yacub and Motherplanes seriously. The fact is this their are no historical text, accounts by scholars, buidings or structures built by christian, muslim or Jewish peoples that mentioned anything related to Yacub or the mother plane. The only group that beleives in Yacub and the Motherplane are the folks from the nation of Islam. And thier are no accounts of Yacub or the Motherplane in Us history before 1930. Once again if anyone on the planet says things that they cant prove or have no historical documentation for in Oxon Hill, Maryland we have never viewed that as truth.

    Below is the first paragraph from Muhamad speaks. I saw these paragraphs by checking out the last link you provided. This is straight from the NOI website

    1) For thousands of years, the people who did not have the Knowledge of the person, or reality of God worshiped their own Ideas of God. He has been made like many things other than what He really is. The Christians refer to God as a “Mystery” and a “Spirit” and divide Him into thirds. One part they call the Father, another part the Son, and the third part they call the Holy Ghost; which makes the three, one. This is contrary to both nature and mathematics. The law of mathematics will not allow us to put three into one. Our nature rebels against such a belief of God being a mystery and yet the Father of a son and a Holy Ghost without a wife or without being something In reality. We wonder how can the son be human, and the father a mystery (unknown), or a spirit? Who is this Holy Ghost that is classified as being the equal of the father and the son?

    This type of business is another reason I stay far away from all religions, I would think you would have to know that the bible has a lot of metaphors. Not everything written in the bible has a literal meaning. Just as not everthing written in the Koran has a literal meaning. Im not sure exactly what the father, son and holyghost mean( for I have asked several christians and haven gotten different answers,)but I know it is a representation of something deeper. What I dont know? But Elijah Muhamad was trying to descredit Christianity when in my oppinion no religion has any proof that can say thiers is accurate and another one is not. Mark

  27. Yo Rashid I went to some of the links and did some reading. I am familiar with some of the info in those links. However I didnt need to read those links to know that Islam has a history of tolerance, scientific achievement and reform as well as a proud world history. I would never deny that. But Islam also has a history of enslaving black people people from africa( and other parts of the world). The impression I get from your post and the first link you provided in your last post is that you are trying to contex Islams history of enslaving folks(black africans included) as not bieng on the extreme side of historical slavery. It seems to me that the one of the fundemental points you are trying to make is that muslim slavery was not anywhere as horrific as European slavery. This may be true. However I could care less if Islamic slavery was 100 times more human than christian slavery, the bottom line is this muslims who enslaved africans long before, the european slave trade. Would those same muslims have tolerated or wanted anyone to enslave them and thier families even if that slavery was not as brutal as european slavery?I dont think so. I also do not care if the bible, tora or koran all sanction enslaving people (which is pointed out in the first link), my moral code tells me that enslaving other human biengs to work without compensation is wrong, wrong, wrong and under the laws of common sense, decency and doing unto others as you would have them do unto they cannot be justified now or 2000 years ago. Period. What you are doing in your post is the problem I have with most religion and that is they freely talk about attrocities committed against them (their religion) but the somehow forget the attrocities and crimes they committ against other religions. I have spent time around the some of the folks from the Nation, and I heard some folks say that the Yacub and Motherplane teachings are literal, then I had one brother who was given me a ride home tell me that they were just parables. I also asked several muslims I work with if they had heard of the Yacub and Mother plain stuff they all said know, and that those beliefs were not a part of islam. As for me accusing the Nation of lying, perhaps my words were not chosen tactfully but from my understanding those teachings are not a part of the historical teachings of Islam. Although I do know many interesting things can be done with selective breeding for instance ( all dog breads are breed from the same species but with thousands of years of breeding you can get such divergent breeds from poodles to St Bernards). So It may be possible, but my mind is wide open so I also believe a lot of other things are possible. It is possible that motherplanes exist but I have not seen one, I know on oo ne who has seen one so under those circumstances I cannot take the Nations claims of Yacub and Motherplanes seriously. The fact is this their are no historical text, accounts by scholars, buidings or structures built by christian, muslim or Jewish peoples that mentioned anything related to Yacub or the mother plane. The only group that beleives in Yacub and the Motherplane are the folks from the nation of Islam. And thier are no accounts of Yacub or the Motherplane in Us history before 1930. Once again if anyone on the planet says things that they cant prove or have no historical documentation for in Oxon Hill, Maryland we have never viewed that as truth.

    Below is the first paragraph from Muhamad speaks. I saw these paragraphs by checking out the last link you provided. This is straight from the NOI website

    1) For thousands of years, the people who did not have the Knowledge of the person, or reality of God worshiped their own Ideas of God. He has been made like many things other than what He really is. The Christians refer to God as a “Mystery” and a “Spirit” and divide Him into thirds. One part they call the Father, another part the Son, and the third part they call the Holy Ghost; which makes the three, one. This is contrary to both nature and mathematics. The law of mathematics will not allow us to put three into one. Our nature rebels against such a belief of God being a mystery and yet the Father of a son and a Holy Ghost without a wife or without being something In reality. We wonder how can the son be human, and the father a mystery (unknown), or a spirit? Who is this Holy Ghost that is classified as being the equal of the father and the son?

    This type of business is another reason I stay far away from all religions, I would think you would have to know that the bible has a lot of metaphors. Not everything written in the bible has a literal meaning. Just as not everthing written in the Koran has a literal meaning. Im not sure exactly what the father, son and holyghost mean( for I have asked several christians and haven gotten different answers,)but I know it is a representation of something deeper. What I dont know? But Elijah Muhamad was trying to descredit Christianity when in my oppinion no religion has any proof that can say thiers is accurate and another one is not. Mark

  28. You’ll find that as you get past all of the incindeary rhetoric, it is more rational and scientific than you could ever imagine. Certainly moreso than any other religion that I’m aware of – and I know of a few.

    Yo Rashid I respect you, but I do not consider Yacub and Motherplanes scientific or mathmatic. Also Ill point this out to you I am 100% anti-Religion because all religions claim to be the 1 and only word of god, when in reality they have no real proof other than thier holy text(bible).The problem with that thought process is this, thier are different holy text’s(koran, torah, hindu religous books), that say something different in regards to being the word of god. Also religion has a long history of supressing scientific scholarship and findings that are based on observational and logic. One great example is what the Catholic church did when Galileo presented his findings about the earth revolving around the sun( the church threatned him with imprisonment and execution). Or think about muslims in Africa and India who refused to allow thier children to treated for polio which had almost been erraditcated, now they got problems with polio again, I saw a show about the India incident when health workers talked to 1 guy about allowing his son to be treated for polio the father said no, If he dies it is Allahs will. Now polio is rising again in those parts of Africa and India that wouldnt allow the vaccine to be given to thier kids. Or how about the Jehova witnesses not allowing people who follow thier religion to bleed to death because they dont believe in blood transfusions, stating if a person dies needing blood it is gods will. One last thing out of billion muslims on the planet the only ones who believe in Yacub, the Mothership or that Elijah Muhamud is the messenger of god is the 50 to 100 thousand black muslims living in america. I cannot take those claims from the NOI seriously. Thier are no documents anywhere on the planet that talk about Yacub and the Motherplane over 100 years old. But folks from the NOI claim that is a part of gods word. Yeah right. But hey with religion you get to say anything you want without proof, or even a credible argument.

    Rashid said:If you are truly searching for knowledge you’ll know the following before you call the NOI liars and before you get so self-righteous on slavery:

    1) What is slavery? What are the tenets of Islamic slavery and the actual practice. Why did slavery in Arabia expand so far and wide to remote regions after the rise of Islam?

    Yo Rashid I could care less about the tenets of christian, muslim or any other religous groups form of slavery, the bottom line is this it is wrong to enslave other human beings. Mark

    P.S I asked several muslims at work about Yacub and the mothership they had know no idea what I was talking about.

  29. Personally I do believe in UFO and life on other planets and I believe that alieans have been in contact with certain governments, religious leaders, and other humans on this blue planet earth.

    I believe that some aliens are good and others are bad (evil) ask your self how can we earthlings be the only creattion in the universe. GOD made but only put earthlings in it come on now. Are we that special? this universe is populated with other life forms.

    Yo Chance I deffinately am not saying that the NOI or Farrakhan is all bad, Im not even saying that they are most bad. The fact is that they take brothas in jail and they do noble work with them. This dosent make Yacub, and Motherships true. As for you believing in Aleins I myself would need to see one of these spaceships before I would believe aliens exist. As for some aliens bieng good or bad I could believe that but I need to see these aliens with my own eyes and then to judge whether or not they are good or bad, I would need to observe thier behavior over a period of time. But I do believe it is possible for life to exist on one of the billions and billions of planets in the universe. I just would like to see proof.Mark

  30. Denise

    Chance Says:
    Monday, June 12, 2006 at

    To Mark

    You are right we should as black people protest and stand in front of the Sudanese embassy, and let our voices be heard.

    DENISE SAID: OK, IT LOOKS LIKE I AM STILL AT IT, LOL. YOU SAY THAT YOU ARE A MULATTO, BUT THEN YOU SAY US BLACK PEOPLE, I AM CONFUSED. I THOUGHT YOU SAID THAT BLACK SKIN MAKE A PERSON BLACK, BUT YOU SAY THAT YOU ARE A LIGHT SKINNED MULATTO. OK, I AM CONFUSED.

    THE SITUATION IN DARFUR IS THE REASON THAT PEOPLE WITH BLACK HERITAGE SHOULD STICK TOGETHER INSTEAD OF SEPARATING OURSELVES. THERE WAS ALSO SOME ETHNIC CLEANSING GOING ON IN ETHIOPIA, MANY MEN OF THE ANUAK TRIBE WERE FORCED OUT OF THEIR HOMES, TOLD TO RUN ONLY TO BE SHOT TO DEATH-IN THE BACK, BY LIGHTER SKINNED ETHIOPIAN SOLDIERS. THE ANUAK ARE A DARK SKINNED NILOTIC PEOPLE. THE LIGHTER SKINNED ETHIOPIANS SHUN THE DARK SKINNED ANUAKS.THE ANUAKS ALSO LIVE ON RICH LAND.
    SAVE DARFUR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  31. Chance (at Denise)

    @ Denise,

    DENISE SAID: OK, IT LOOKS LIKE I AM STILL AT IT, LOL. YOU SAY THAT YOU ARE A MULATTO, BUT THEN YOU SAY US BLACK PEOPLE, I AM CONFUSED. I THOUGHT YOU SAID THAT BLACK SKIN MAKE A PERSON BLACK, BUT YOU SAY THAT YOU ARE A LIGHT SKINNED MULATTO. OK, I AM CONFUSED.

    Response: I am a mulatto, and I am not ashamed of it, but at the same time I have black ancestry, and I feel that I should care for black people too. I care for whites, and native Americans because I look like them too. Many whites are not black but they care for what is going on in Darfur. If I went to Dar fur the blacks would think that I was an Arab who may becoming to them some harm, and run or try to kill me based upon my appearance. I cared about the war that was happening in Yugoslavia in the 1990s and Yugoslavia is in Europe and it was whites killing whites. I am a part of the cosmic race (mixed people) and I care about what happens to people regardless of race. You don’t have to be apart of a racial group to like or love that race. I am not ashamed of my black ancestry, I accept it, it is apart of my mixture.

  32. Keita

    Two questions:

    How did Arabs get into Sudan in the first place? How did they take control of a black country?

    A comment you made:

    The white race is currently the wealthiest of all ethnic groups and this wealth is what whites earned by hard work and intelligence.

    Now if you mean hard work and intelligence through conquest, slavery, deception, colonization, theivery, greed, etc., if that’s what you mean.

  33. Chance

    Quote: How did Arabs get into Sudan in the first place? How did they take control of a black country?

    My response: Arabs got went to Sudan and east Africa and North Africa and scattered through the whole middle east 13000 years ago. They did it to spread Islam to the whole middle east and parts of Africa, in North Africa and Sudan the Arab immigration increased and Arabs stayed in these countries and kept having children until their populations grew into the majority, and there were civil wars between Arabs and blacks in these countries too. The Arabs were the winners of these wars and this allowed Arabs to establish moire power on various parts of Africa until they became the majority politically. They also brought the religion of Islam to these countries too.

    Quote: Now if you mean hard work and intelligence through conquest, slavery, deception, colonization, theivery, greed, etc., if that’s what you mean.

    My response: Yes whites did use hard work and intelligence through conquest, slavery, deception, colonization, thievery, greed, etc to conquer the world. Now at the same time all ethnic and racial groups who have been on top have used the same methods combined with their intelligence and hard work. All of the great racial groups whom have contributed to the development of the world had conquered other nations at some point in time. When one powerful nation that conquered falls another rises.




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